Jay Silverheels and Brooklyn

[DanJ]

Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com

Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.

In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.

Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.

I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.

Thank you for entertaining my request for information.

DanJ

[Tibishcogan]

Subject: Jay Silverheels and Brooklyn
Date: 11/11/03 8:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

Dan, I checked out the Brooklyn forum and saw the notes. Mr.Jay Silverheels was
born Harold J.Smith.(Jay?) He also used the name Silverheels Smith which may
give a clue to more information. But he was born on the Grand River Reserve of
the Six Nations of Canada at Brantford in Ontario, Canada. His father was
George Alexander Smith a Mohawk Cheif (Sachem).Yes. He was a Mohawk Indian. Son
of a Cheif of the Confederacy. There are 50 Sachems or Cheifs at the
Confederacy for Traditional Council.He may have been a fullblood too. Depends
on his Mother's ancestry.No mention of her.

You see many had their names changed but returned to Traditional names too. One
of my Grandfathers had 5 Traditional indian names in his life and a European
name but he was a fullblood indian.But also a Cheif's son would have a
Traditional Mohawk name not listed in his biography as a Mohawk too. It is a
"Smith" but some Nations it had nothing to do with their real names. They may
have been a fullblood indian but seemed by name a regular old "Smith". Hope
that makes sense because I have a pretty extensive knowledge about traditional
naming and contact with Europeans too.Not meaning that is always the Case. It
takes a long time to understand these issues.They are complex.

The name "Hiawatha " was a real Mohawk Sachem of the Confederacy and not what
James Fennimore Cooper created as a Chippewa warrior for poetry. He was a real
person.A very important person and leader.

We are called the Elder Brother of the Six Nations Haudenosaunee the Grand
Iroquois League of the Confederacy. You may call the Mohawk Nation or Ron
Frosty Deere who posts on this Forum who is Mohawk and perhaps he knows a bit
and ask them for some guidance on his Clan and anything they have. Please be
respectful of the Clan Mothers as they hold equal authority of the Confederacy
and chose the Cheifs of the Confederacy.

His film credits are really long and really impressive. He played Lacrosse
(Traditional of the Six Nations) and was a Boxer and a stuntman too.

Here are some links .He was a beloved and a highly respected man of his peer
group and in dignity and pride in his ancestry and worked hard to bring our
people into Movies and Hollywood and cared a great deal how we were seen.

I grew up watching him and the "Lone Ranger" and as "Tonto" ( it is also a name
for a Division Nation of the Apache Nation peoples.If I remember right?
"Kemosabe" actually is a Tonto Apache word and means "Crazy" I think. I would
have to do some checking on it again.Harjoe is Comanche word and means "Crazy".

Here are two Links---
http://www.skypoint.com/members/joycek19/tonto.htm

http://nimst.tripod.com/cgi-bin/UC9.html

Tibishcogan...Chippewa/Northern Cheyenne.Also Mohawk/.Mohican (Mohegan)
/Seneca. American citizen.

[Mike P]

Post by DanJ
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

It is best that you ask his son Jay JR. or one of the other children. He had
four. A fine actor in his own right. I did have the pleasure of meeting him,
and talking for a while. His wife was Italian, and his children were brought
up in Calif, and Canada.He did box at Madison Square Garden so he had been
in that area when he was young. He never lived in the New York area. He was
also the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, and play an Indian in
movies as a lead actor.

Mike

[publius2k]

Post by Mike P

Post by DanJ
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

It is best that you ask his son Jay JR. or one of the other children. He had
four. A fine actor in his own right. I did have the pleasure of meeting him,
and talking for a while. His wife was Italian, and his children were brought
up in Calif, and Canada.He did box at Madison Square Garden so he had been
in that area when he was young. He never lived in the New York area. He was
also the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, and play an Indian in
movies as a lead actor.
Mike

If he was the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, it was only
because Will Rogers died before TV (1935). Rogers was one of the most
famous personas of his time and left a great legacy of wit and wisdom
from his newspaper columns, books, stories, recordings and movies. He
was on the Cherokee roles, as were both his parents afaik.

His humor softened the message of brutality and injustice he often
satirized, like how the dominant culture solved the 'Indian problem'.
They promised the Indians they would own the land as long as the grass
grew and the water flowed. Then they re-located them where nothing
would grow and there was no water.

[Mike P]

Post by publius2k
If he was the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, it was only
because Will Rogers died before TV (1935). Rogers was one of the most
famous personas of his time and left a great legacy of wit and wisdom
from his newspaper columns, books, stories, recordings and movies. He
was on the Cherokee roles, as were both his parents afaik.
His humor softened the message of brutality and injustice he often
satirized, like how the dominant culture solved the 'Indian problem'.
They promised the Indians they would own the land as long as the grass
grew and the water flowed. Then they re-located them where nothing
would grow and there was no water.

Will Rodgers was to the stage what Jay Silverheels was to TV, and movies.
They both as well as others led the way for us today. To often those today
forget or was never informed.

Mike

[Kip King]

Post by Mike P

Post by publius2k
If he was the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, it was only
because Will Rogers died before TV (1935). Rogers was one of the most
famous personas of his time and left a great legacy of wit and wisdom
from his newspaper columns, books, stories, recordings and movies. He
was on the Cherokee roles, as were both his parents afaik.
His humor softened the message of brutality and injustice he often
satirized, like how the dominant culture solved the 'Indian problem'.
They promised the Indians they would own the land as long as the grass
grew and the water flowed. Then they re-located them where nothing
would grow and there was no water.

Will Rodgers was to the stage what Jay Silverheels was to TV, and movies.
They both as well as others led the way for us today. To often those today
forget or was never informed.
Mike

I've read that Will Rogers father (I think his name was Clem V. Rogers
but I'm not sure) was a Cherokee National Councilman.
Kip

[Mike P]

Post by Kip King

Post by Mike P
Will Rodgers was to the stage what Jay Silverheels was to TV, and movies.
They both as well as others led the way for us today. To often those today
forget or was never informed.
Mike

I've read that Will Rogers father (I think his name was Clem V. Rogers
but I'm not sure) was a Cherokee National Councilman.
Kip

I didn't know that. I do know he could have been Vice Pres. if he had
wanted, but turned it down.

Mike

[publius2k]

Post by Mike P

Post by publius2k
If he was the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, it was only
because Will Rogers died before TV (1935). Rogers was one of the most
famous personas of his time and left a great legacy of wit and wisdom
from his newspaper columns, books, stories, recordings and movies. He
was on the Cherokee roles, as were both his parents afaik.
His humor softened the message of brutality and injustice he often
satirized, like how the dominant culture solved the 'Indian problem'.
They promised the Indians they would own the land as long as the grass
grew and the water flowed. Then they re-located them where nothing
would grow and there was no water.

Will Rodgers was to the stage what Jay Silverheels was to TV, and movies.
They both as well as others led the way for us today. To often those today
forget or was never informed.
Mike

I just got a copy of James Whitmore's performance of "Will Roger's
USA" recorded in the 1970's. It is an amazing collection of a little
of his works. Much is political satire and I swear if you changed
Hoover to Bush, you would think he was talking about today's current
events.

[Mike P]

Post by publius2k

Post by Mike P

Post by publius2k
If he was the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, it was only
because Will Rogers died before TV (1935). Rogers was one of the most
famous personas of his time and left a great legacy of wit and wisdom
from his newspaper columns, books, stories, recordings and movies. He
was on the Cherokee roles, as were both his parents afaik.
His humor softened the message of brutality and injustice he often
satirized, like how the dominant culture solved the 'Indian problem'.
They promised the Indians they would own the land as long as the grass
grew and the water flowed. Then they re-located them where nothing
would grow and there was no water.

Will Rodgers was to the stage what Jay Silverheels was to TV, and movies.
They both as well as others led the way for us today. To often those today
forget or was never informed.
Mike

I just got a copy of James Whitmore's performance of "Will Roger's
USA" recorded in the 1970's. It is an amazing collection of a little
of his works. Much is political satire and I swear if you changed
Hoover to Bush, you would think he was talking about today's current
events.

I have some 38's still of his that were recorded way back when. Also some of
the Lone Ranger when it was still on the radio.

Mike

[Mokosh]

Post by Mike P

Post by DanJ
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

It is best that you ask his son Jay JR. or one of the other children. He had
four. A fine actor in his own right. I did have the pleasure of meeting him,
and talking for a while. His wife was Italian, and his children were brought
up in Calif, and Canada.He did box at Madison Square Garden so he had been
in that area when he was young. He never lived in the New York area. He was
also the first NDN actor to play a lead role on TV, and play an Indian in
movies as a lead actor.
Mike

He also owned harness racing horses, and in the early 70's I saw a couple of
them at Freehold Raceway in NJ. Spoke to Mr. Silverheels briefly; just said
hello and wished him luck at the races. Nice man.
MJ

[Shunkmanitu]

This discussion brings up memories of a fellow I ran with as a kid in the
fifties while living in a transient trailer park on the South-west side of
Phoenix. Jimmie was a "nephew" (exact relationship I don't know), on his
mom's side I think, of Jay. He lived with his Dad, a mixed blood, in a
small trailer near the back of the court. I keep hoping that sometime I
will run into him again, maybe someone on this thread will know something.
Shunkmanitu Ska

Post by DanJ
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

[Tibishcogan]

Subject: Re: Jay Silverheels and Brooklyn
Date: 11/13/03 10:05 AM Pacific Standard Time

<change of topic> Sorry.

Shunkmaitu Ska, I found a very well known person's name in some old records who
is a movie Actor who has been looking for his other Tribe.He is a LAKOTA!! So
now? I am not sure how to get in touch with him other than find a Rez raised
Lakota from Pine Ridge who can help ? Ya have any ideas?

Tibishcogan...Chipewa/Northern Cheyenne

[Shunkmanitu]

Hi Donna,
We have missed you lately. Tell me your story and next time I am up in the
North end of the county I will ask Kangi Sunka if he can help. You missed
your chance, last weekend at Thunderbird Wacipi several Home Boys (and
Girls) were wowing the Creeks and Cherokees with Northern Plains Knowledge.

I just figured I would ask about Jimmie, never know who might be lurking out
there. We are not such a large community, particturely those as old as I
and from that end of town, that we might find someone we know. Had a fellow
a few months ago that deals in old beads that went to the same school as I
only a couple of years later.

Wakan Tanka nici un
Shunkmanitu Ska

Post by Tibishcogan
<change of topic> Sorry.
Shunkmaitu Ska, I found a very well known person's name in some old records who
is a movie Actor who has been looking for his other Tribe.He is a LAKOTA!! So
now? I am not sure how to get in touch with him other than find a Rez raised
Lakota from Pine Ridge who can help ? Ya have any ideas?
Tibishcogan...Chipewa/Northern Cheyenne

[Tibishcogan]

Subject: Jay Silverheels and Brooklyn
Date: 11/11/03 8:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ

DanJ, I have never been to Nwe York but I really enjoy "NYPD" Show a lot.One of
my favorite shows.For a couple of reasons.

But one of my Dublin, Ireland -Irish ancestors came to America and she sang in
St.Patrick's Cathedral in New York City too. You got me to thinking on a lot of
my family and our Clans of Ireland and of the First Nations too.One of my
Irish-American Clan kin of Ireland is very well known on National TV for
his...er ...um..giggle....rowdy and yet insightful commentary and cute ways and
grouchiness...Gotta love him and like him and know I have not even started
sharing about that side of my family yet!! I'll stop before I am off and
running....again...

Thanks for sharing also. I am too rowdy for your forums but enjoyed
reading...Thanks..

One correction to your posters and on this forum ?Mr.Jay Silverheels was the
son of a Mohawk Sachem Cheif of the Mohawk of Ontario,Canada..I ain't budging
either on it and don't feel like arguing with others on this forum.There ya
go!! Ain't gonna argue with a Apache man about it either!!! Humph!!

Tibishcogan..Chippewa/Northern Cheyenne..Mohawk/Mohican/Seneca...

[Shunkmanitu]

This discussion brings up memories of a fellow I ran with as a kid in the
fifties while living in a transient trailer park on the South-west side of
Phoenix. Jimmie was a "nephew" (exact relationship I don't know), on his
mom's side I think, of Jay. He lived with his Dad, a mixed blood, in a
small trailer near the back of the court. I keep hoping that sometime I
will run into him again, maybe someone on this thread will know something.
Shunkmanitu Ska

Post by DanJ
Of late there has been a respectful discussion as to whether or not
the actor, Jay Silverheels, ever lived in Brooklyn. This discussion
has taken place on the Brooklynboard.com
Jay Silverheels appeared in numerous movies and is best known by
middle aged people like me for his work with Clayton Moore in the
television program, The Lone Ranger.
In this century Brooklyn was the home of many Native Americans,
particularly those who worked on high steel in the construction of
Manhattan.
Rumor has it that Mr. Silverheels married a nice Italian American
girl, Mary, and sent his children to St. Athanasius which is probably
in the Gravesend/Bensonhurst area.
I have searched the internet extensively without coming up with a
clear answer. Might anyone here be able to shed light on the
question? If anyone is in touch with this Silverheels' family, their
speaking up and answering the question on the Brooklynboard.com would
be welcome. If the lore is even partially correct, and Mrs.
Silverheels is a Brooklyn girl, she may be interested in all the
discussions of the borough of her birth, as would her Brooklyn born
kids.
Thank you for entertaining my request for information.
DanJ